Dragon Skin Backers Hammer on the Hill, By Christian Lowe [Military.com]

Well Pinnacle Systems did seem to get hammered pretty good with this article. They even post video of a supposed penetration failure of the armor in the article. I still don't think were getting the whole story on the Army testing but the article almost gets it right IMHO at the end

"The best way to resolve this matter would be for the U.S. Army Test and Evaluation Command to conduct comparable side-by-side tests of both Interceptor and Dragon Skin body armor," Coyle (expert representing Pinnacle Systems) said.

While Hunter (R-Cal) subjected both Neal (President of Pinnacle Systems) and Coyle to harsh questioning over their claims, the California lawmaker agreed that another round of tests is the only thing that will put the issue to rest.

"We need to straight away, in an expeditious way, to find out if there's value to this system," Hunter said. "And if there is value, we need to extract it as soon as possible and get it to the troops in the field."

Don't put it to rest!!! Find out what Dragon Skin does well and where it fails and then continue the research. Pinnacle System exists and is funded by YOUR MONEY, millions of dollar of your money, through the SBIR program. Don't put it to rest, the technology has promise, a flexible armor that has close to or equal protection to the existing ridged armor, it may or may not be ready for "prime time" but even if it fails the next suposedly fair test it has demonstrated a lot of excellent qualities over the existing armor. If Point Blank (the maker of the present issued body armor) and those in bed with Point Blank didn't have so much to loose (from their wallets) this would be a non-issue. If money was not at stake then if the armor passes it would get used, if it fails it would go back to the lab and continue advancing. Everyone seems to want to either issue the armor as-is or flush the whole program as a failure. It's a damn research program its only a failure when you quit trying and/or fail to apply what you have learned. They are trying to fail miserably on the hill right now.

Long time no news on Pinnacle System Dragon Skin.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070521/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/army_body_armor

Yahoo has a story that the Army has release that the dragon skin body armor failed their test. But I believe this is the test that was never completed over a year ago, the test that the supposed third party testing aggency had hired someone from the compete company Point Blank to over see the test. This artical has several fallacies in it. The big one being the weights quoted. They quote Dragon Skin at 47.5lbs and point blank at 28lbs. This is accurate if your comparing Dragon Skin version with maximum coverage of rifle level protection versus interceptor with only front and back trauma plates. Add the extra side plates and groin protection to the interceptor and the weight get close to that of the Dragon Skin and yet the Dragon Dkin still provides more complete rifle level protection. The only concern is that if its true that the glue used to hold the scales in place is breaking down in thermal cycling this could be a serious but surmountable problem for the Dragon Skin. If I was going to Iraq I would still choose Dragon Skin over Interceptor. Even if the level of rifle protection is not as good as Interceptor (which I still doubt) it is clearly more complete coverage over a greater area of the body.

Reading this article still does not change my feeling that the Army and Point Blank (maker of the issued Interceptor armor) are trying to screw over Pinnacle to keep the money flowing. I would still wager Pinnacle's Armor is the better armor and this is a money not performance issue.

ETA:http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aeb_1179756012

As a follow up to my earlier post iPod = trauma plate



via The Joy of Tech

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tiki/445618364/in/pool-appleusers/



Love'em or hate'em Apple makes solid hardware. The comments indicate that the ipod slowed the bullet (7.62x39 from an AK-47) enough that the bullet did not penetrate his body armor. I wonder if the bullet hit his trauma plate, assuming he was wearing standard Interceptor Body Armor? Looking at the distortion of the back of the ipod were the bullet exited I'm guessing it missed the trauma plate. If it did miss the trauma plate then the bullet did probably save his life as 7.62x39 usually gets though most soft armor. I would like to see his armor. The ipod would have not been necessary had he been wearing Dragon Skin, it provide rifle level protection across its total surface.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%202006%2edb&command=viewone&id=9

The above article is a good read. It apparently got under someones skin.

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Special%20Reports%202006.db&command=viewone&id=11

Things are going to get interesting when the Official NIJ Level III certification is given. I would love to be a fly on the wall in Point Blanks corporate head quarters.

This just in: Pinnacle Armor, Inc.'s SOV-2000 Dragon Skin has just passed all NIJ Level III ballistic testing/requirements at USTL (United States Test Laboratory). Official NIJ Level III certification should come in approx. 3-4 weeks, but it will come. Pinnacle Armor company officials have told us that it's a done deal. This is BIG news for Pinnacle Armor and the body armor industry as a whole, as Dragon Skin is the first flexible hard armor (anti-rifle) system to receive NIJ Level III certification, and the only flexible armor system ever submitted.

More good stuff here: Dragon Skin Body Armor (SOV-2000) Passes all NIJ Level III Tests at USTL

I am very pleased to see Pinnacle Armor finally get some justice. I would like to ask Karl Masters and his cronies how that crow taste. His continually bad mouthed the Dragon Skin armor and yet now it appears that the testing is showing, as I guess some time ago, that the Dragon Skin is equal to and better than the Interceptor Armor. Hopefully this good news for Pinnacle Armor with soon be good news for our troops that are putting their life on the line. The days of the ridged trauma plate armor is numbered.

Link to Soldiers for thr Truth. There really is nothing new in this link as it's the press release from Pinnacle Armor I linked to in my last post on Pinnacle Armor. It's basically Pinnacle Armor defending their product in what they saw (and I must agree) was a very poorly conducted test. The fact that the competition was involved in the testing serously bring the inparciality of the test into question. Now three month after the supposed failed test of the armor Defense Review and Soldier for the Truth are finally following up. Both Defense Review and Soldiers for the Truth basically reprinted the letter on Pinnacle's website. What caught my attention was the open comments on the Soldiers for the Truth copy of the press release.

As we've said before, DefenseWatch does not normally post Press Releases of private companies, but in the case of Pinnacle Armor we are doing so because of the seriousness of this life-or-death issue to America's Grunts. The continued corruption in the Army acquisition system shows no sign of being corrected, so here's "the other side of the story." (And dear readers, please stay tuned -- the story is just getting interesting!!)

I have been staying tuned and getting nothing but static! Nothing like buearcracy to bring progress to a grinding halt. The testing seems so simple and straight forward; shoot the damn armor and see if the bullets go through. This kind of Bull Shit politics in this country is not only getting a some solders killed its undermining the foundation of this once great country. The terrorists' strongest weapons is our own ability to stab ourselves in the back.

To quote my favorite movie; Ripley: You know Burke, I don't know which species (substitute country, culture, government, or religion in here if you like) is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!

This post started as a simple update but every time I do a quick search to see if there is new info on this subject for my blog I get so freaking angry and it turns into a rant.

Wow! what all I can say about this? It certainly appears the government botched this big time and despite the independent testing lab's involvement it appears.

In the first link you will find excerpt from a post made by a Karl Masters about the Dragon Skin Armor. Masters is the program manage for the company that makes the Interceptor body armor, the armor presently being issued to our troops. He was also somehow involved with the testing of Pinnacle Armor's dragon skin armor, despite the obvious conflict of interest.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002548.html

At one point in his post Masters states:

"I do, however, highly recommend this system [referring to the dragon skin] for use by insurgents," he added...

WTF? Sure he works for the competition, and is yet somehow involve with the testing of the competition's armor but on a public forum to make a comment like this seems out of line. We are all on the same team here and to make comments like that is unprofessional IMHO.

This next link is to Pinnacle Armor's website and their response to Masters' comments.

http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/20060630-pr.php

If only half of what Pinnacle writes is true the government and Masters are being real ARSES.

I am so steamed reading the above article I can't rightly put my opinions in written word. I made the mistake and followed the link in the Defensetech article to the forum were Masters' made his original comments and reading all of his fanboys that swallow his gibberish without question sort of made me ill.

Why can't they just get this right? Oh yeah someone likes their money lined pockets.

{Tongue partial in cheek} Have Masters and his counterpart from Pinnacle wear their respective companies body armor and start trading chest shots with 7.62 AP rounds until one of the armors fails. Testing complete, problem solved!

S. O. B. !

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901606.html

Damn, it appears that the Dragon Skin body armor failed testing. The article gives absolutely no technical details on what tests were performed and what part the test the armor failed but it appears that an independent ballistic testing lab, H.P. White, did the test and it is being reported as a failure. SOB!

I am shocked and disappointed, but before I completely give up on the armor I would like to see more details on how and what the armor failed. I still think this technology has great promise and I still think it will ultimately be the configuration of the future. Solid one piece trauma plates are going to be going away IMO. Call me a fanboy if you like, I am.

The sad part is this story dates from May 19-20th (yah I have been a slacker) and yet the fanboy Defense Review has said nothing about his testing. This does not bode well for them in my opinion they have been a very avid supporter of this armor and just because it failed the test is not time to give up. The armor is a research project I'm sure the failures will be addressed and overcome.

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=872

After reading the above article two things come to mind.

First this controversy has little or nothing to do with the actual performance of either body armor. Following the money is probably the quickest way to the core of the problem and holdups.

Second, the neutrality of Defense Review's reporting has now come into significant doubt in my mind. Yeah I know you guys probably saw their bias awhile ago, but my serious fanboy status on the Pinnacle Armor's Dragon Skin body armor did not really let me notice it until this latest article sort of bitch slapped it right up side my head. It may be that the Dragon Skin body armor is the best option for our soldiers but some of the comment in the article like:

..."Army announced yesterday it would hold an open design competition for the next generation of body armor, intended to replace DHB's Interceptor armor." Now we're talkin'. That's more like it--assuming they let Pinnacle Armor play. While it's Defense Review's opinion that the U.S. Army should just save everybody a lot of time and money and name Pinnacle Armor SOV-2000 (Level III/III+) and/or SOV-3000 (Level IV/IV+) Dragon Skin as Interceptor's replacement right now by sole sourcing it--as no other body armor in the world can currently touch it with regard to anti-ballistic performance against rifle rounds--we're cautiously optimistic about the open competition the Army has planned (again, provided that they let Pinnacle participate, i.e. compete).

Sure makes it sounds like author/Defense Reveiw is either a rabid fanboy of Dragon Skin or they are on Pinnacle Armor's payroll somehow.

I am still very much a fan of the Dragon Skin technology. I still believe it is probably the best armor going out there given my research but that said there is some nasty politics going on here and as I have said before our soldiers over seas are getting a raw deal while people argue over how will get your money!